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Things always seem hard, and a long way off, when you don't want to get them done. Cleaning one's house can seem impossible and "a long way off" when you intentionally let the mess pile up, at the request of Big Business. The longer you let it sit, the worse it gets, until one wonders how it got so bad. In this case, through greed and inaction.
J from SK
World a 'long way' from climate treaty, Harper says
talking about
Harper begins his first official trip to India
By: CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Sunday Nov. 15, 2009 7:07 PM PT
Prime Minister Stephen Harper arrived in Mumbai on Sunday, beginning a three-day tour of India.
Harper is scheduled to stop in New Delhi and Amristar, as well as Mumbai, during the trip. The visit is Harper's first to India as prime minister.
During his first day there, he was scheduled to meet with Indian investors in Canada and visit a Jewish centre in Mumbai that was attacked by terrorists last year.
Harper was also expected to have his photo taken with Bollywood star Akshay Kumar, and deliver a speech on Canada's relationship with the country.
The prime minister has been criticized for being late to reach out to the growing Asian giant, which houses some 1.2 billion people.
Harper refutes that claim.
"This government is re-engaging India in a way that hasn't been done since the 1970s," he said.
The prime minister's visit follows the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation summit, which wrapped up in Singapore on Sunday morning.
There, Harper announced that the world's leading and emerging economies are "a long way" from a new treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and a new deal is unlikely to emerge from next month's climate-change conference in Copenhagen.
While the 21-nation group usually meets to discuss trade and other economic issues, climate change has dominated this weekend's meetings.
Harper was among a number of leaders to emerge from the breakfast to say they are a long way off from a new deal to replace the Kyoto Protocol, which will expire in 2012.
"(There was) a pretty strong consensus at the meeting this morning that countries of the world remain a long way from a binding, legal treaty on climate change," the prime minister said.
Harper pointed out that there are 3,000 "bracketed pieces of text" in the Copenhagen working document, which means there are thousands of issues that require further discussion.
"I don't think that can be attributed to any one country," he said. "There obviously are significant areas of disagreement."
At the close of the summit on Sunday, the leaders released a statement that abandoned the idea of specific emission-reduction targets or even "aspirational goals," the term once used by APEC leaders.
The communiqu only said that leaders had agreed to phase out "over the medium term" fossil fuel subsidies. No timeline accompanied that statement. In the end, the leaders promised they would work "towards an ambitious outcome in Copenhagen."
"We probably need to get our negotiators out of this morass of hundreds of pages and thousands of brackets of text and into looking at the big picture and coming to some agreement on some big picture items," Harper said.
Opposition critics in Canada told CTV's Question Period that the Harper government has not taken concrete steps to reduce emissions and stop climate change.
"Most other countries will come to Copenhagen with real plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and to cut energy consumption in their countries," said Scott Brison, a Liberal MP from Nova Scotia.
"Mr. Harper's government is taking a wait-and-see approach and not doing anything in terms of specific actions to make a difference.
Deputy NDP leader and former Quebec environment minister Thomas Mulcair said that countries with less developed economies like China and India were temporarily exempted from Kyoto because they were given time to catch up economically while countries like Canada developed clean technologies.
"What is unreasonable... is that Stephen Harper is using this as an excuse to avoid internalizing into the cost of the tarsands oil, for example, internalizing the cost of the greenhouse gas emissions, and we're going to continue skewing our economy and it's a huge mistake for future generations," he said.
While at the summit, the prime minister engaged in a number of bilateral meetings and informal talks with APEC leaders over the weekend, including Russian President Dmitri Medvedev.
In early December Harper is scheduled to visit China for the first time, and South Korea.
With files from The Canadian Press
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Things always seem hard, and a long way off, when you don't want to get them done. Cleaning one's house can seem impossible and "a long way off" when you intentionally let the mess pile up, at the request of Big Business. The longer you let it sit, the worse it gets, until one wonders how it got so bad. In this case, through greed and inaction. |
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I am happy that Mr. Harper as well as Obama will not commit us to worthless pieces of paper like Kyoto. They are telling it like it is. The radical environmentalists will have to realize that Canada and U.S. cannot take care of the planet alone. |
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The continuing hyperbole being spouted by proponents of the global warming chimera remind me of thirty years ago. For those who dont remember that time, we were all told that an ice age was imminent (Newsweek April 28, 1975; Science March 1, 1975). I havent seen Winnipeg crushed under sheets of ice, but Im sure they felt cold enough some days. Now, we are all being preached to that the world is caught up in runaway global warming; that life as we know it is coming to an end. This is, of course, bovine excrement in great heaps. These lurid accounts of a despoiled and poisoned planet accelerating in a headlong rush to doom are advanced by persons with other agendas and politics at stake (James Hogan, Kicking the Sacred Cow, 2004, p. 243). This hijacking and misuse of science is typical among certain political lobby groups and unfortunately there are always scientists willing to pander to them, for whatever reason. I cant even ascribe dishonest motives to the panderers as everyone, at some point, feels the need to make a difference in the world; but there is always a danger in extending authority in one field to other, unrelated fields. Unfortunately, this is what is happening today. |
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I do not know how anybody as a Canadian can be proud of Harper. He is simply obfuscating global climate change progress. Pointing to others so that he doesn't have to do anything. This guy Harper is a national disgrace. |
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@BillI suggest that you do more research, Bill, around the notion that "30 years ago we were all warned of an imminent ice age." Actually that's not true. What is true is that a small number of people in the media took the observations of a few scientists, based on some preliminary studies, and turned them into a media frenzy. At that time, some scientists were concerned that increased aerosols (particles in the atmosphere) could reduce global temperatures. In fact they were right.. Pollution in the atmosphere was in fact decreasing temperatures slightly. We now know, thanks to improved measurements, that the aerosol effect was masking a growing global warming trend. Ironically, cleaning up pollution has uncovered the real problem of global warming, a fact that every leading international scientific organization now agrees is caused by human fossil fuel burning. In fact,some of the most dire predictions made just 10 years ago are now being outdone by real-time events such as the melting of the polar ice caps and increased drought in many areas of the world. This is not due to "natural cycles" or other pseudo-scientific explanations, but real changes to our global climate. By the way, the recent argument that the world has been cooling since 1998 has recently (two weeks ago) been shown to be a product of faulty mathematical analysis. The debate among scientists has been over for quite some time, and global warming is now considered to be based on good science, not on politics or fear-mongering. The only people who don't get it now are gullible members of the public who bought into the big oil companies' agenda. They often post here, making erroneous claims. But the scientific community is very clear on the reality. |
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Global cooling was a conjecture during the 1970s of imminent cooling of the Earth's surface and atmosphere along with a posited commencement of glaciation. This hypothesis never had significant scientific support, but gained temporary popular attention due to a combination of press reports that did not accurately reflect the scientific understanding of ice age cycles, and a slight downward trend of temperatures from the 1940s to the early 1970s. General scientific opinion is that the Earth has not durably cooled, but undergone global warming throughout the 20th century.[1] - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change |
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In 1975 we measured ocean tempters by attaching a string to a mercury thermometer and dipping it in the water over the side of a boat. Today we use thermal satellite imaging that is a lot more accurate. But when comparing temperatures from 1975 to 2009 one should consider the level of technology today and the lack of it in the 1975. Is it reasonable to say that in 1975 there was a lot more margin for error than there is today? |
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That is a great attitude to work with Harper. He is practically already giving up and the Copenhagen conference isn't for another month. The longer we don't take care of Green house gases the harder it will be in the future. We have to put our foot down and makes sacrifices now, but that will never happen with With Harper who is all TALK but no WALK! |
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Jeez, I wonder why we are so far away from this? It couldn't be because conservative world leaders such as Harper keep stonewalling the process? |
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That's because under the Harpy Gov't CANADA has increased it's green house gas emmissions after a minor reduction under Stephane Dion as Environment Minister. The reality is that Canada is one of the per capita emitters in the World along side the U$ so the People's Republic of China and India should be reluctant to bidding numbers given that North America AND Europe have been able to pollute the last 100 so years! |
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I asked my brother in law (the climatologist with a PhD) a while ago about this debate. He tells me that global warming/ climate change is a scam. Climate variation is ongoing and never ending not a static thing. The earth is in a cooling trend right now, and any warming is due to solar phenomenon (look up Maunder for solar flares & sunspots and their effects on climate). Gore, suzuki and the rest are just cashing in on fears that they have created int he public mind.It's not science - it's a fraud. |
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"The world's leading and emerging economies are "a long way" from a new treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Sunday,"Let us all thank what ever deity we believe in for small mercies. At least we stand a chance for the Earth to show us, definitively, that more CO2 in the atmosphere does not mean higher global temperatures. Maybe in a couple of years or so, it will be clear that global temperatures really are cooling. |
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In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution,the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself. This contrived and purposeful enemy arrived in the shape of man-made global warming. And to think that all of us gullible gadgets were fooled into believing that any climate change was caused by that big lamp in the sky, determining not just earths overall temperatures but those of all planets in the solar system.It just goes to show that the scam is perpetrated on such an unprecedented scale, that few dare question its validity. The entire thing of course boils down to the old Nazi proverb: the bigger the lie, the easier the sell. The United Nations, the globalist foremost salesman, was designated to carry the message along to all the worlds regions and all nation-states falling under her jurisdiction. The division of the UN deemed most qualified to do the job was UNESCO, the scientific arm deciding what educational programs are to be distributed amongst the worlds universities and primary schools.Whatever their motivation, they have openly declared themselves to be on the opposite site of humanity. Thank You CTV for this oppertunity to write the facts! |
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Perhaps all you climate change extremists should read the EPA's own reports (and that of Alan Carlin) and many other peer reviewed research on the so-called "man-made climate change" before you jump on the climate change bandwagon like sheep to the slaughter. If you want to pay global bankers a tax for every breath you exhale, then hey, whatever floats your boat. But there are many of us who would like to breathe for free. |
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Lets compare 35 million Canadians with 1.3 billion Chinese!!! Do you really think we are doing as much as damage than them? If we do any?? Be realistic! We don't need to sign anything with that scam!!!Good Job Harper!! You stand up for Canada!! |
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Some of you need to get your facts right, it was the liberals that allowed pollution to increase to the level it is today and Kyoto was just another hair brined scam to make it look like they were trying to do something about it. Please explain to me just how giving 5 Billion dollars to Russia and china per year will reduce the smog over Toronto? Its Dalton Mcguinty fault that Ontario is still burning coal for power. Not Harpers. The oil sands and clean energy are fall under provincial jurisdictions. This week in Manitoba the Provencal NDP government just suspended 9 Wind Power generator programs indefinably. Manitoba will not be developing Wind power any time soon. Who fault is that? Not Harpers. The NDP cant even decide what side of the province to run a north south line down. Never mind and east west power grid. The Conservative are hardly stonewalling this. It is the incompetent Provencal governments that cant make a decision that are slowing progress down. |
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Harper is risking putting Canada at a major disadvantage internationally by not setting clear policies on how we plan to internalize the cost of carbon. By not doing this, we are losing the race to developing a robust cleantech industry, while Germany, Sweden, the US and China are taking experiencing significant economic growth in this sector. Its not extreme environmentalists that want a treaty but savvy investors, business executives, academics and every day folk who can see past the smoke and mirrors of politics, ideology and manufactured uncertainty. I think its funny how all the deniers are the ones that want to reference "peer reviewed" studies and articles, like they actually understand how the peer review process works. Those who understand the climate change issue will have the last laugh when the world prices carbon and our investment portfolios significantly outperform those of the deniers. So deniers please keep up your whining and skepticism, its music to my ears... |
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To all the Harper bashers. The man is simply telling the truth so don't blame him because the other nations will not do anything about Kyoto. The U.S. and China, India and other industry driven countries are not going stop producing or polluting because they only care about making money. Changing leaders will not do any good, it just means there is a new face on the scene. Big business runs the world and that's the way it is. |
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I wonder what the Liberals did about this issue during all the years they were in power? Thought so!! |
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Too bad Harper doesn't spend as much time on climate change as he spends on crime - we might make some progess. |
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That's really good news Steve, you and your conservative government can continue to do nothing and blame other countries. Steve, you need more than a little help from your friends. |
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That's an attitude I cannot support. It may be true that parts of the world are not ready, but we must move towards green economic progressive viability. We must move ahead economically. We need to have vision and forward momentum. Since when does an entrepreneur take no for an answer? C'mon get some vision! |
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Finally people are coming around to the fact that this 'global warming/climate change' hype is all a fraud. We will be better off on this planet without the fear-mongering involved with global warming. I for one am enjoying 10+ years of global cooling!! |
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OK, let's suppose for a moment that something substantive can come from Copenhagen. How does putting our standard of living in jeopardy, inflicting massive price hikes on everything that has a "carbon input", and shipping hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars a year to developing countries remove even one milligram of CO2 from the atmosphere? ANSWER: It doesn't.CO2 is a natural by-product of any number of natural chemical processes; how do get 6 billion people and untold billions of animals to STOP EXHALING?! |
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Mr Harper- it seems everthing your crew does lately is a long wasy off or it's someone else's fault. When will you be a Leader and lead and stand tall for Canada, stop making us look bad-If you cant do the job Step aside and let soem one in your party or another party do the job,Sir - stop making use look weak on the world stage.As one person has said we need NEW LEADERS all around the world- the present ones seem to be just amking a MESS of it. |
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Until we have developing and large nations like India, China on board we are in a losing postion. Every country must realize and agree that we have to cut emissions to save the world. |
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The only person worth listening to in shaping our world is Obama. Not some minoritized govt leader who may or may not be around in a years time. Thanks for your opinion, Steven, but their are voices around that actually have the capacity to influence the planet. |
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Just a question: If an adaptive energy policy is to be a potential solution for climate issues, what sort of potential is there in activities like plasma gassificaton energy projects that could minimize and mitigate the net-environmental damage of hazards such as the plastic gyre off Hawaii. Could such initiatives be financed by emissions reductions from individuals and businesses? How would the potential environmental consequences of plasma gassification projects stack up against the dangers associated with unchecked growth in C02 emissions? |
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To all the Harper Bashing Liberals out there. I would like to ask you this. What would you do different? What is your great plan to save the world? Oh thats right you dont have one!!! But when and only when your God leader Iggy becomes PM. You will magically pull a plan out of thin air to solve the problem. (That is, If you Get into POWER) if you dont get into power than I guess the world will be doomed and the apocalypse will happendid I miss anything? or does that sum it up?Nice try but with the exception of the core liberal cultist followers the rest of us Canadians that are open minded and can think for ourselves we are not buying into your lies, your flip flops, arrogance and fear mongering horse crap anymore. |
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QUOTE: The world's leading and emerging economies are "a long way" from a new treaty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Sunday, and a new deal is unlikely to emerge from next month's climate-change conference in Copenhagen. UNQUOTE. This is a DEFEATIST attitude and very NEGATIVE. The World needs LEADERSHIP and Canada is not providing it. Harper is happy just sitting on the fence saying it cannot be done. Thank God Obama is now on the stage. YES WE CAN !!! |
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Chris has an excellent point about that 35 million compared to 1.3 BILLION people, good post ,,, something for everyone to think about.Too bad he is on the wrong side, he seems to like Harpy. I'm also very certain that if given the chance David Suzuki could explain that away,, no problem. |
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ARJAY, Chilliwacksaid..."@BillI suggest that you do more research, Bill, around the notion that "30 years ago we were all warned of an imminent ice age." Actually that's not true. What is true is that a small number of people in the media took the observations of a few scientists, based on some preliminary studies, and turned them into a media frenzy. At that time, some scientists were concerned that increased aerosols (particles in the atmosphere) could reduce global temperatures. In fact they were right.. Pollution in the atmosphere was in fact decreasing temperatures slightly. We now know, thanks to improved measurements, that the aerosol effect was masking a growing global warming trend. Ironically, cleaning up pollution has uncovered the real problem of global warming, a fact that every leading international scientific organization now agrees is caused by human fossil fuel burning."----------------------------------------OMG!!!!!! "Big Oil" must have been disguising global warming behind clouds of aerosols. The fienish devils! ..... The last place I would have looked too!By the way ARJAY, if memory serves me right - friend Suzuki was well ensconced in the "Global Cooling Bandwagon" at that time as well.Welcome to the "Global Panic" shell game folks!!! |
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This current crop of politicians in Canada is by far the least effective of my lifetime. Driven by self-serving desires their devotion to public service ends as soon as the mic is shut off. Leaders take calculated risks for the benefit of all. When did we become a nation of quislings? |
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At least Harper is honest, not like a certain party that I know that signed an accord knowing full well they could not meet the terms of that accord. Window dressing for votes and an election that is all it was about |
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What is truly unreasonable is blaming the Prime Minister for not being able to reach a climate treaty at the APEC. The truth of the matter is, aside from Canada and perhaps the US, none of the APEC countries really gives a damn about climate change. Remember most of them are developing countries that places economic growth above all else. As great a country as Canada may be, we really don't have much influence over emerging powers such as China or India, and in all likelihoods we'd be accused of being "patronizing" or "imperialistic" if we try to persuade them to sign a climate change agreement. Until the day these countries, not just the developed ones, decide that climate change is a pressing issue, pollution will continue to be as bad as ever. The only exception being that the developing economic powers will keep on enjoying their development and one day become global forces to be reckoned with, while western democracies with their shrinking economies look on powerlessly. |
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@David OttawaThanks,David, for repeating almost everything I said concerning global warming. Your rebuttal, however, leave something to be desired. Big Oil was not hiding global warming behind clouds of aerosals, of course. Global warming caused by fossil fuel burning was not an issue then, so there was no need for a "smokecreen." No, seriously, do you really think that this constitutes a reponse to my argument? If you have a point to make, make it by responding to the evidence. Otherwise, thanks for coming out. |
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It's as if certain people have been trained to go out of their away to DESIRE to be bent over and shafted. In some of the posts here you can tell that people are frantic over the idea that they might not be shafted as well as they have been expecting to. The thought that Harper might put a kibosh or delay in their shafting is so upsetting to them. Trained slaves, trained exactly how to think and exactly how to like being raped.Look people, we are in a sad state of education: No one knows what DNA is made of. No one knows where oxygen comes from. No one knows an inkling of geologic history and the experiments it has naturally run on itself. No one can answer all those and put it all together and tell you what the overall wisdom of that knowledge is.Are you there? |
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just for those who only read this site, another news site came out with another article where Obama backed a compromise. Unfortunately bridge building and compromise aren't ideas our current PM believes in. I would like the people who sternly support him to explain why? I am very curios |
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All this tar sands wealth didn't prevent Edmonton from becoming 'the city of potholes'. |
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What a joke! Canada should be showing some leadership to break whatever impasses exist to get to a workable treaty not standing in the way of one by sucking up to the Americans. If he was really concerned about the economy, since he apparently is trained as an economist, he should realize that his inaction domestically and foot-dragging internationally will only lead to even more economic pain in the future for our children and grandchildren. But he has only the shortsightedness of a typical politician and is looking to maintain his support from oil rich Alberta for the next election. |
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It's quite amusing that the CTV moderator is heavily censoring the posts to tilt the balance to create the illusion that there are more granola crunchers here than in reality. Since the moderator seems determined to censor, I'll just make a couple of points again-that he's seen fit to block:1. the IPCC report was created by politicians & social "scientists" NOT climatologists,2. the IPCC report has been refuted by climatologists,3. a survey of climate specialist scientists by the German Metreorologisches Universitat Hamburg and Forschungszentium found that 67% of Canadian, 87% of German, and 97% of American scientists rejected the notion of global warming due to human activity, and4. The Leipzig Declaration states there is no general scientific consensus about the importance of global warming and we cannot subscribe to the politically inspired worldview that envisages climate catastrophes and calls for hasty action.I doubt the tree huggers will care to take the splinters out of their arms long enough to face scientific fact but here it is. |
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